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Published On: Tue, Apr 1st, 2014

Somaliland:Top Islamic Scholar Expelled from Religious Body for Instigating Gender Debate

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By Goth Mohamed Goth

The Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice(CPVPV) Chairman Sheikh Mohamed Mohamud aka Xiiray has being dismissed from his position after the scholar hard-pressed his case on the issue of gender equality on the amount of manslaughter blood money.

More than 20 Islamic clerics converged at the ministry of religious where they issued a joint statement on the renowned Somaliland scholar in which they dismissed him as the chairman of Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention because he refused to retract his views on the issue hence being in contradictions with the teachings of Prophet Muhammad’s peace be upon him

For almost 20 day today, Sheik Xiiiraye is said to have unwaveringly urged with fellow Islamic clerics based in the country regarding the in which he said to have challenged fellow to either prove him wrong or otherwise seek the intervention of other Islamic scholars based outside the country since to him they seemed not to have sufficient knowledge on the issue but instead his fellow scholars decided to expel him in a widely publicized press conference aired live on Somaliland national Television and some even went to the extent of accusing him of Blasphemy during the live transmission others likened him to the late dictator General Mohamed Said Barre and so forth.

On the other hand Chairman Sheikh Mohamed Mahmoud in a private press conference yesterday just few hours after his expulsion began by reading a recitation from the holy Quran  

We have prescribed for thee therein ‘a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds retaliation;’ but whoso remits it, it is an expiation for him, but he whoso will not judge by what Allah has revealed, these be the unjust.[1] Surat al-Ma`idah 5:45

After reciting the verse he went on to clearly state that there is no evidence backing that the compensation paid for mistakenly killing a woman should be half that for a slaughtered man.

“No evidence in the Noble Qur’an support s such arguments on discrimination drawn between men and women in that regard.”quoting Sheikh Qaradawi’prominent Muslim scholar, who is also head of the International Association of Muslim Scholars (IAMS)

Sheik Xiiraye went on to say , ” i have been modarete in my teaching those in the 10 years i have been living in the country and thats why they want to see me go, i have numerous times in the past urged them not to teach young children how to be come radicals in their religious schools but instead to teach the youth to be tolerant to others and because of such believes i have earned many enemies along the way.

The Islamic Scholar added, “Those against me have their own agendas and that’s why they have ousted me today but still I shall stand firm in my  believes.

Here is a similar case which took place in the Islamic nearly a one decade ago

DOHA, (IslamOnline.net) – Prominent Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi pressed for gender equality on the amount of manslaughter blood money.

Qaradawi said during a forum in Qatar’s Supreme Council for Family Affairs on Wednesday, December 22, that there is no evidence backing that the compensation paid for mistakenly killing a woman should be half that for a slaughtered man.

“No evidence in the Noble Qur’an supports such arguments on discrimination drawn between men and women in that regard.”

The prominent Muslim scholar, who is also head of the International Association of Muslim Scholars (IAMS), said earlier generations of scholars such as Ibn Alia and Al-Aasam used to pay equal blood money to compensate the families of those killed regardless of their gender.

Not as Inheritance

Sheikh Qaradawi further rejected that the blood money issue should be dealt with as that of inheritance – where women get half that offered to men of the legacy of their dead relatives.

“Still, there are many inheritance cases in which women are paid equally as men.”

Sheikh Qaradawi refuted claims that men are paid double the amount presented to women due to men’s responsibility for their families.

“Islamic Shari`ah doesn’t state this. Rather, we see a little kid is paid equally as to an old man, and a porter as a professor – with no discrimination whatsoever.”

Known for his moderate edicts and widely-respected views, Sheikh Qaradawi maintained that reconsideration of the women’s share of blood money would be an honor for women.

He called on the government of Qatar, where the Egyptian scholar now stays, to put his recommendation into action.

Agreement

Sheikh Qaradawi’s call was welcomed by a host of prominent scholars attending the forum.

Chief among them are Qatari participants Sheikh Abdul Kadir bin Muhammad al-Amari, the former deputy chief of the Appeal Court, professor Aisha al-Mannaa, the dean of the Shari`ah faculty of Qatar University, and her colleague professor Mohamed Othman Shber.

Al-Mannaa said review of women’s share of bloody money would be seen as an effort to promote women rights.

Shber concurred, saying these days are completely different from earlier eras when opinions on women’s blood money share were given.

Salem Rashid al-Marrekhi, member of the national human rights committee in Qatar, hailed the scholars’ stance on equalizing women’s share of blood money as a boost of human rights in the Islamic world.

“Human rights laws don’t strike a difference between between males and females.”

Disagreement

However, a cohort of Muslim scholars voiced opposition to equalizing men and women on the blood money share.

“The four madhhabs (religious schools) have agreed on paying half share of blood money to women,” said Saleh bin Jassem Al Muhanadi, head of the first class court.

He urged to take into account men’s financial burdens when tackling the issue of women’s blood money share.

“Men pay dowry and are totally responsible for their families, burdens that women are exempted of.”

More Studies

Other Muslim scholars pressed for conducting more studies on the issue of women’s share of blood money.

Dr. Thaqeel bin Sayer al-Shamry of the Court of Cassation said the issue requires deep examination, warning against hasty decisions on what he calls a thorny territory.

Shamry believed that scholars advocating equal blood money to men and women have used weak hadith (Prophet Muhammad’s sayings).

The forum comes following mounting calls to introduce amendments to the Qatari law on women’s blood money share which states that families of killed women are paid half that to killed men as a settlement to potential disputes over the killings.

The Supreme Council for Family Affairs which hosted the lecture was established in 1998 under the presidency of Sheikha Mozah bint Nasser Al-Misnad, Qatar’s First Lady.

The Council has been a scene of several gatherings on family issues, latest of which was the Doha International Conference for Family, held on November 29-30.

 

 

 

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  1. Hassan says:

    I cannot believe this kind of debate is hapening in my country when other nations are sending men to space, are inventing cure for evil diseases, and do not distinguish between humans regardless of gender, age, race, nationality, religion or education. And in Somaliland we are still talking about tribal laws and ancient-old ways to resolve disputes, from the times of lawlessness. Not to mention humiliating position of women in our wretched society. Are we ever going to move forward, have our own organized, modern state with the rule of law, and finally move away from middle-age mentality? Our children are dying of malnutrition and diseases long forgotten in other countries; our women are disenfranchised and mutilated; our men are drug addicts; and our leaders are quarreling about money and power instead of leading the nation and making people's lives better. We still live in dark age while the world moves forward. And we are discussing here primitive laws from 1500 years ago instead of dringing water, electricity, roads, hospitals, schools, jobs. Poor Somaliland.

    • SLWorrior says:

      The "primitive laws from 1500 years ago", is your comment about Islam and/or the Sunna? If that is the direction of your words, then as a Muslim you should repent.. 3. Genital mutilation of women, I can understand and I am against it. If the drug addicts are the qat consumers, I am also against the stuff. But all Somalis, Yemenis, Ethiopians and most Kenyans are addicted to the stuff.

    • Balaclava says:

      Yeah poor Somaliland, no hospital except the one where my father got treated for his heart attack, no electricity except the electricity being powered by this laptop. No schools except for the schools my parents send my brothers and sisters instead of the school in the west. And no jobs except for the job that helped me pay for the lap top and spending money in my pocket.

      • Hassan says:

        Balaclava, leave Hargeisa – where at least 3/4 of population cannot afford electricity and runnig water – and you'll see the misery of our people. They live a life of Indian "untouchables", suffer in deprivation of such cmodities as tapped water, electricity, sewerage; medical support is virtually non-existent, broken roads prevent movement; children and grown-ups are equally uneducated, even illiterate. Our agriculture is at the level worse than 1000 years ago, with no real irrigation despite rainy seasons. Look at Hargeisa, it is swamped with garbage people dump EVERYWHERE; children, goats and dogs are playing in garbage, eating dirt and plastic bags. Our men sleep the whole morning because in the afternoon they chew chat and in the night they are high on chewing effect. They produce no value, they don't work, they spend family's income on their drug habit. The whole nation lives on remittance from diaspora, and that money gets spent on drugs, which is imported from Ethiopia: 400 million US dollars goes to Ethiopia for chat a year!! While our state annual budget – nobody knows, by the way, how it's spent – is only 180 million dollars. We are divided between clans like 2000 years ago, God only knows why because it makes no sense at all. Our parliament represents clans, our political parties represent clans, our government ministers represent their clans – and we want to call ourselves a nation?! A nation of what – clans? No wonder no one wants to recognize Somaliland for 20 years.
        And what can we see here, in he year of 2014? Our religious leaders, like supreme national leaders, argue about killing eac other for revenge like here are no laws in this country, and is a woman worth a man?! Yes, that is primitive, I do say again and again. He who is not open to question everything under the Sun is not bringing any progress to his country and his people. And I question these bigots this news is about, who keep Somaliland in dark ages for their own material interests, like many other who call themselves our leaders, Sultans, Kings, Ministers and Presidents.

        • Balaclava says:

          Somaliland held multiple presidential and parliamentary elections. It has seen multiple peaceful handovers of power, including to a minority "CLAN" it survived a presidential election that was decided by and 80 vote margin without resorting to "violence." (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YuoRYG0kpf4)
          Somaliland has made massive gains in primary schooling and significant reduction in Infant mortality. Somaliland has invested in education, which has allowed it to build dozens of new schools, hire thousands of new teachers, and make primary schooling free for all students. Literacy rate went from 20 percent in 1991 to well above 50 percent in 2013.
          Security forces have ensured that terrorist group al Shabab has no safe haven in Somaliland. Somaliland has tackled piracy off its coast. Somaliland also made great strides in education, development and public health. Somaliland had also made gains in the fight against malaria. The past years have seen the region become almost malaria-free. While others in the region have struggled with famine and relied on external food aid, (http://horn.wfp.org/main.html) During the last drought in the region, Somaliland government donated nearly $700,000 in humanitarian assistance to Somalia. All this was accomplished by Somaliland without its government having access funding from the World Bank, IMF, or other major donors. I do say again and again, If you keep telling the same sad small story, you will keep living the same sad small life.
          "Our agriculture is at the level worse than 1000 years ago, with no real irrigation" Really?
          Considering thousand years ago inhabitants of what is now Somaliland lived as nomads, relying on animals for sustenance. How can you compare todays farming to 1000 years ago when farming didn't exist? ……"We are divided between clans like 2000 years ago" Really? Sorry didn't get that memo which clans are at war in Somaliland? Only people concerned about clans are the diaspora community who have too much time on their hand. What you call progress I call misleading and fear mongering.
          And please don't generalize when you say "our men sleep the whole morning cause they chew chat" just cause your brother, cousin, uncle or father does…doesn't mean every man does.

          • Hassan says:

            Just get out and see how people live. All those fancy numbers mean nothing when you see how people live, what can they afford, where do they work if they have a job, what economy is there at all (small shops with imported goods; no manufacturing at all and ask yourself why). There are no banks, there are no necessary laws to attract investments, no law enforcement agencies worth speaking of, no independent judiciary. Only shady firms dare coming to Somaliland.
            Clans are everything and everywhere, when you look for job, when you seek for government's assistance or service, it's the main driving force of our politicians who get elected and replaced if need be on clan basis. No serious business can be started without clan's interference; why the cement factory is decaying? Why Hargeisa lost water supply project? Greedy local clans, that's the answer, like there's no government in this country.
            Our elections are a joke, postponed indefinitelly and financed by foreign money, with no voter lists and no secrecy of vote, and with massive multiply voting; read reports.
            Education got more accessible, but what is the quality of it? Especially high, university education. Try finding a job with your diploma outside of Somaliland.
            Drug addiction is massive; why do you pretend it's not there? Female genital mutilation is apalling, humiliatingly high, with devastating consequences.
            No one even knows who are Somalilanders and what's the population of our country. For 20 years of independence no government tried to conduct population census, or establish a sustainable civic registry. Why? Clans. Sultans and Kings don't want to find out whose clan is bigger.
            And so on, and so on.
            Just get out and open your eyes. You will see misery and poverty, desperation and desolation. Dirt, dust and controlled anarchy with middle ages laws. The only thing keeping our poor people alive is ignorance – most of them never saw a better life. Get out of Somaliland and you realize how miserabe life is in our country.
            It's a nice music, telling all those fairy tales, but reality is grim for our country and I can see no light yet.

  2. kabocalaf says:

    "Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice(CPVPV) " .

    Some say I am exaggerating when I talk about the imminent threat of Salafist/Wahabbsit takeover of somaliland. Well look no further than above organisation. It only ever officially existed in three countries in the whole of the Muslim world: Saudi, Taliban Afghanistan and for very short period of time, Sudan.

    That is how far into Salafist madness Somaliland has sunk. We lost our country and our beautiful islam that we defended against the Mad Mullah and Siyad Barre. Somaliland is Talibanisatn in Africa. For evidence, look no further than the existence of Vice &Virtue

    • Hassan says:

      Don't forget Iran. They are shi'a but you see, they get along with their extremist brothers from Saudi and Afghanistan easy in their lunacy: music is controlled or banned, TV is controlled or banned, internet is controlled or banned, sports is banned like in Taliban Afghanistan or Supreme Court/al Shabab Somalia, men must wear beards and women veils (oh, wait… reminds me of Somaliland; forget that), other religions are banned (oh, wait… reminds me of Somaliland; forget that).
      I still cannot believe that we, Somalilanders, are discussing these things in the age of super-conductors and man in space, while we cannot manufacture a simple spoon. Poor Somaliland, my dear country.

  3. SLWorrior says:

    But coming back to Somaliland as well as the rest of the Somali speaking lands, North to South, East to West,tribalism is a deep seated malady, which can never be rooted out. And the tribal leaders have a strong grip of the lands.Today we see thousands of Kings, Sultans, Chiefs, religious leaders who either pass a law which they expect elected Presidents and leaders to implement or they will declare a vote of no confidence and expect the leader to be kicked out.. Somtimes I sit and ask myself when is all this madness going to end? Sometimes I think a Stalin type of a leader with an iron fist is needed to purge all this ignorant miscreants and build a nation(s) which could be programmed to shun all this deplorable ways. Call me a hardliner or merciless, but our people do not understand "reason", and modernity is viewed as the ways of the infidels.

  4. Balaclava says:

    No you are not exaggerating you are on point my friend, walking in the streets of Borama and Hargeisa i walk around in shorts and an Afro, with no religious police forcing me to grow my beard or pray as I hear the Athan in the background. And later on in the night as my female friend (who isn't married and not my sister) and I walk down to Downtown Hargeisa passing by men who chew khat in the open with out fear of Vice and Virtue organization. To go smoke Sheesha freely. With no one bothering us. Or as I watch Horn Cable Tv and everyone is complaining about RRU the anti terrorist commandos. Overreacting while looking for al shabab members. I can totally is how you came to that conclusion of salafist/wahabbist takeover.

    • Hayir says:

      Balaclava you seen like a modern jolly fellow. How would you feel about your sister being taken out to smoke sheesha freely with some guy who isn't related?

      I am sure in your modern sensibilities you wouldn't have a problem with that.

      • Hassan says:

        How would you feel, Hayir? What would you be afraid of, who you distrust here, and what does that have to do with you exactly? Do you escort your sister everywhere she goes, and why?

  5. NLander says:

    Disgusting welcome to what Islam, the Sunnah and Sharia really are. Women your life is worth half that of a mans. Smdh wake up Somalis! This religion is not good. Think about it an almighty god that needs an illiterate arab to communicate on his behalf? Does that even sound right?

    Why the hell do we even have a ministry of religion?! wtf! Keep that stuff to yourself in your home or mosque and keep it out of civil society!

    Secular Humanism protects your right to be whatever religion you are but it also protects you from religious people from all different religions imposing their beliefs into the laws of the land!

    Secular Humanism is the only thing keeping us from becoming saudi arabia, iran or every other Islamofacist regime.

    • Amran says:

      Non Lander
      If you only wont scare to read the Quran you might see that Quran says a life for a life no gender mentioned, and eye for an eye and tooth for tooth and so forth the Sheikh is right but some custom had been applied to the religion for the benefit of tribes but Allah SWT is very fair as matter of fact when some religion where saying that women has no soul and even in North America women could not vote until 1920 so what you are talking about Islam has given women more respect than any other institution.

      • NLander says:

        Please tell me any right that Islam as a system gives that women dont get in the west?

        You claim there are all these rights that Islam gives ok, but what rights does Islam give and currently you cannot get in the west?

        Its like claiming that you got windows 98 when everyone else is running windows 8.1.

        Lets look at divorce a man can simply say I divorce you three times and its valid but a woman has to jump thru hoops. The man is the only one who can initiate a divorce.

        In Rome and China women did this long before Islam and long after it.
        http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?page

        …divorce, in principle, is the Shari`ah-based right of the husband; he can waive this right and can give his wife a right to divorce herself. There are other cases where the wife can end the marital bond such as Khul`.

        In this regard, The European Council for Fatwa and Research, issued the following Fatwa:

        “Originally Islam has given the right of divorce to man.

        – Woman has the right to execute divorce if this is a condition stipulated in the marriage contract or the husband gives her this right later on. (so basically she can only divorce her husband and initiate it if only the husband gives her that right) This right in the west is guaranteed you dont need the husband to give you that right

        – A woman can also ask for Khul` in front of a judge who should exhaust all means of reconciliation before sentencing Khul`. (A man doesnt have to go thru those hoops, but a woman does)

        – A woman may agree with her husband on divorce according to legal conditions.

        – A woman may also ask the judge to divorce her if it is legally proved she has been harmed. The judge has the right to issue divorce verdict if the wife prove that harm. But the judge should try his best to make reconciliation, as Allah commanded him, especially by arbitrating to people to help him.” (So instead of just giving her a divorce like you can get in the west, this Imam basically tries to keep her in the marriage, while in the west you just file your paperwork and get the signatures.) See how hard they are making it for women to get out of relationships they dont want to be apart of but its easy for men to get out.

        For more information, you are recommended to read the following Fatwas:

        – Khul`.

        – Inserting Conditions in Marriage Contracts .

  6. NLander says:

    Modernity is the way of infidels said SLWarrior! Do you even hear yourself when you say dumb things like that.

    I suppose you havent seen the world move on, thats what religion does keeps you ignorant bc someone who cant read or write, critically think cannot challenge them.

    Why do you think the most religious countries are the most poorest? While the least religious are the most richest and most EDUCATED!

    Ask yourself where Saudi Arabia or Iran would be without oil? NOWHERE, they would be literally living in the 6th century like Mohammed crying about the Jews and Christians blaming them for their ignorance wait they already do that!

  7. Speak The Truth says:

    A lot of you are sitting behind your screens and typing away not knowing the true reality of what's happening on the ground in Somaliland. Don't say we read or surf the net and what the news (SLNTV, Horn Cable etc.) As for you Hassan if you were in the country then you are a liar for what you said Somaliland is moving forward in every aspect, be it Health, Agriculture, Infrastructure and military, We have moved leaps and bonds for a Country that is not recognized.

    To move to SLWorrior being moderate is the way of Islaam our religion is one the middle path not too soft and not too hard.

    NLander I truly fell sorry for you from your writings loneliness stares out at you your heart is empty longing for love and companionship. I would offer to be your friend but the truth of the matter is if I was to ever see you in Somaliland I would batter the crap out of you then feed you to the fire ants.

    Please if you are thinking this is a threat then stop thinking know it is a promise.

    Just before you start to say this is what am talking about extremist, then let me explain to you why you deserve this treatment. Your religion or non-religious believes are up to you, but when you start to disrespect Allah Azza Wajal, Islaam and the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) then you have over-step the mark.

    as for the rest of you people that are one here and say we are Muslims then how can sit there and look at your screens and not try defend your religion

    • Hassan says:

      You are the one who lies here – and is an extremist, by the way by all the criteria – because I happen to live in Somaliland and have my own eyes to see. Our poor country unfortunately lags behind the not even developed, but developing countries by centuries. What is improving, where do you see improvement? Improvement compared to what exactly, 1993? Do you go out of Hargeisa at all, do you see how people live in Togdheer, Sool, Sanaag? What health, what agriculture are you talking about? What uset do be green barely 30-40 years ago now is desert because of uncontrolled, selfish tree cutting, and you talk about agriculture. Even Hargeisa, our capital, looks like an overgrown vilage, swamped in dust and garbage.
      All you talk about are cheap, populictic floscules based on imagination, and of course pure extremism.

      • Lander girl says:

        So basically you are trying to say our country is poor and in mess coz of Islam. I think it's our disgusting tribal mentality that made us like this not islam.

  8. NLander says:

    Speaks Lies,

    Notice how he doesn't attack anything I have to say but resorts to personal attacks on the internet about someone he doesnt know? Thats called an ad hominem attack. Its a logical fallacy many of which are used by people who's arguments dont have a leg to stand on.

    Please explain to the readers of this site what exactly your delusions about my personal life have to do with whether or not it is wrong to let a country in the 21st century use Sharia law based on the Sunnah and the actions of the prophet to determine whether or not women and men are equal?

    I argue that the Sheikh is right I dont agree with him, I am glad that the others have struck him down. But lets be honest he is being honest about what his religion is, while folks like you cherry pick about what you want to accept and what you dont.

    Islam is anything but pluralistic, you're no longer dealing with ignorant 5th century arabs or for that matter ignorant somalis who will believe anything an arab says without scrutiny.

    The people here know deep down inside what I say is right. I just have the courage to type what they think.

    Allah is no god, he constantly threatens in the Quran what sort of supreme being threatens creations he knowningly made into different religions and nations? What sort of so called supreme being, all knowing, blah blah blah…uses such an ineffective method of talking to a illiterate arab in the middle of no where and tells you that on pain of death if you dont believe that man and only him that all generations of mankind will burn?

    Why doesnt this almightly god simply reveal himself to all men and women without using war, without using threats of hell, without using such an inefficient system of revelation. He can make the sun but he cannot afford a better system to inform people of his existence other than sending one man and ordering people to believe in things that are unacceptable to intelligent men and women and then turns around and threatens us?

    The very internet you're using is better than your allah its more efficient!

    • Infidel hater says:

      Nlander you are arrogant and ignorant. If you don't believe in God than you are the lowest of the low. People like you worship their own ego because they mistakenly think they know better.

      In your ignorance you presume to know better than the creator of all. If you don't have perfect information how can you judge Allah who knows everything you little fool.

      You are going to be judged on everything you said as angels are writing down every word. We have our faith and you have nothing but bitterness in your heart. All non-believers will burn in hell for all eternity and i promise so shall you unless you repent and turn back to Islam. This isn't a threat it's the reality of things.

    • May 18 says:

      Muslims please respond to this. Admin is questioning my viewpoint on Islam. #Shaitaininhumanformwhomakessense

  9. Just a guy you blocked says:

    Seriously the man’s argument is “No evidence in the Noble Qur’an ”
    You know what else isn’t in the Qur’an how many times you have to pray and how many raka each prayer is.

    This man is either ignorant or willfully ignoring the truth.

    Imam Shafi’i in Kitab al-Um said “I know of no dissenter from old and recent scholars on the issue of the woman’s blood money being half that of the man’s blood money”

    Scholar including Sahaba and the Imams of the four schools of fiqh all agreed on this issue. This is called Ijma meaning consensus. Which is a source of Islamic legislation. This consensus alone proves that the unknown “scholar” in the above article is wrong.

    So there isn’t an issue here for media people and lay people to talk about. This is strictly a matter of fiqh which is easily resolved. You can google for your selves the major opinions on this matter.

    I am glad the committee ejected him. He doesn’t seem to be sincere about his religion. The only motivation he could be possibly doing this for is to appease the west while harming his faith.

  10. test says:

    have comments been closed?

    • test says:

      Seriously the man’s argument is “No evidence in the Noble Qur’an ”
      You know what else isn’t in the Qur’an how many times you have to pray and how many raka each prayer is.

      This man is either ignorant or willfully ignoring the truth.

      Imam Shafi’i in Kitab al-Um said “I know of no dissenter from old and recent scholars on the issue of the woman’s blood money being half that of the man’s blood money”

      Scholar including Sahaba and the Imams of the four schools of fiqh all agreed on this issue. This is called Ijma meaning consensus. Which is a source of Islamic legislation. This consensus alone proves that the unknown “scholar” in the above article is wrong.

      So there isn’t an issue here for media people and lay people to talk about. This is strictly a matter of fiqh which is easily resolved. You can google for your selves the major opinions on this matter.

  11. NLander says:

    Notice how all these so called peaceful muslims do is threaten those who dont think exactly like they do? They cant attack a single point I have put forward but resort to insults. Does that remind you of anyone? Allah?

    A, B, C, D I am your lord dont you see how I make it rain, how I have spread the earth like a carpet? How can you deny me. Dont worry I have a hot place waiting for you, where I will burn you but just remember I am the most merciful! …..Threatens you with eternal torture then claims to be merciful its laughable!

    And I am supposed to take something like that serious? Just bc I type it in English perhaps you can see the absurdity that is the Quran.

    Why couldnt Allah reveal useful things like oh I dont know the cure for polio? Why not explain in detail exactly how electricity works? I am real useful things that generations from now as well as then that would have made sense to scientists?

    Instead vague ramblings of the alphabet, simple observations and threats. Weak

    • I. H. says:

      You will never find peace in this life as long as you reject Allah. In the hereafter you will suffer eternally for you sins.

      • NLander says:

        A, B, C , D

        I already have found peace of mind. I used to be so terrified while in Islam worrying how all the decent people who I might that werent muslim were going to burn, reading all the horrible things mohammed and his sahaba did in the hadith and trying to justify it to myself. The amount of mental gymnastics it request to stay a muslim was soo painful.

        Researching and founding out that all the so called scientific claims in the Quran are wrong. I think it was after that that I finally was like…..so I am being asked to believe in Allah unseen and the only reward I will get is after I die. It specifically says that in the Quran. Allah is basically asking you to be blind in your support.

        The difference between you and I is. I am not afraid of death. I would rather look at this religion and its prophet and his sahaba with scrutiny (they did some good things, but MOSTLY bad).

        I will leave you with a quote by Marcus Aurelius:

        "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

        I expect nothing, I fear nothing, I am free.

        • NLander says:

          sorry autocorrect on phone su cks ^people I met, ^required, researching and finding out. Read the Quran, Hadith and Tafsiir as if you were not trained from birth as if this was true by default but look at it as someone from the 21st century who knows whats out there and then honestly ask yourself if this is a message for all men and all generations. I think you will find it lacking like so many young and older millennial's are.

          • Lander girl says:

            You are not afraid now but you will be afraid later so enjoy your few years or numbered years for now it won't last

          • Nostalgic Soul says:

            There is only one truly unforgivable sin in Islam, in which God will not forgive people, which is feeling to believe in one God–which includes both Atheism, and ascribing partners to God. Everything else can be forgiven.

            I'm a Doctor (educated in America) by profession and have lived in the west my entire life. I'm a Millennial just like you say you are, and I couldn't disagree with you more. Working in a hospital means facing death on a daily basis, and you see people of all ages dying ( some just born and some who are 90, and everything in between), and you learn one inevitable truth—we are all born simply to die–nothing else. Birth and death are the two things we all as human beings experience regardless of our position, race, gender.
            To me the world of the Atheist is more bleak than that offered by religion, because that of Atheism says to the poor, those that die young and those treated with injustice —your life sucks—well too bad! Where the religious life offers hope–you do good and you will be rewarded. And it's that how this life is. If we didn't obey the rules of the various societies we lived in you would be punished and sent to jail, so why should religion be different? Atheism, I feel is a belief only the wealth and health can afford to have.

  12. Lander girl says:

    May Allah protect us from kufr subhanAllah that's the worst calamity anyone can be inflicted with. Anyways here is a little reminder http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=URU7B1KoDvs

    Enjoy

  13. M. Khalid says:

    Shiech Mohamed Mahmoud is a highly respected religious scholar. He is a moderate thinker who depends, in addition of his extensive religous knowlege, on logic when he is required to comment on religious questions. I know him for his integrity and good manners. As for womens' blood money when slaughtered, it is an Arabic tradition which dates back to the times of Prophet Momamed. Like the other men of the world in the old days, Arab men looked down upon women. This trend has always been changing in the civilized world with time, but it remains solid in the third world countries. We are all human beings. Bioligical differences do not mean we differ in thinking and feeling. We are equal. For those who antagonize Mohamed H. Hirray on womens' rights, I admonish them to be logical and seek the best ways to improve the lot of the people instead of busying themselves with vague arguments.

  14. M. Khalid says:

    Shiech Mohamed Mahmoud is a highly respected religious scholar. He is a moderate thinker who depends, in addition to his extensive religous knowlege, on logic when he is required to comment on religious questions. I know him for his integrity and good manners. As for womens' blood money when slaughtered, it is an Arabic tradition which dates back to the times of Prophet Momamed. Like the other men of the world in the old days, Arab men looked down upon women. This trend has always been changing in the civilized world with time, but it remains solid in the third world countries. We are all human beings. Bioligical differences do not mean we differ in thinking and feeling. We are equal. For those who antagonize Mohamed H. Hirray on womens' rights, I admonish them to be logical and seek the best ways to improve the lot of the people instead of busying themselves with vague arguments.

  15. NLander says:

    Nostalgic Soul,

    You said that bc your a doctor and you see death everyday that you assume Atheists have a bleak outlook. On the contrary we appreciate life even more bc we know its the only life we will get.

    You said that religion offers hope, that Atheism tells the poor too bad. That is not true, it is religion that says that. It is religion that says it is Allah who has put you where you are right now. He knew from the beginning that you would starve to death and he made you simply that way and all those somalis poor and weak that died were his plan all along. But remember he is merciful lol

    Atheism doesnt make absurd promises, it doesnt tell you that the only reason you should do good is because there is some hell or heaven, it tells you that you should be good because good will come out of it for all!

    Just as an example of Allahs so called mercy and hope a family member of mine was arguing with me the other day. Saying how all the starving people and poor were Allahs way of showing the more fortunate to have faith. I thought it was absurd why is Allah willing to sacrifice innocent people to prove a point? Being almighty he could just stop suffering. My fam member replied but dont worry they will get their reward in heaven.

    My question is why do the poor need to suffer, why must they be stepped on to prove a point? What that tells me is that Allah is A) not merciful B) that he cares more about the wealthy and rich. While the gratitude of the poor and the weak can wait till they are dead. Why does fair compensation require your demise?

    Again you said that religion offers hope, just because something offers hope in a bleak situation does that make it right or accurate? When I was younger I used to love this one little blanket, whenever there was a thunder storm or a scary movie my fam was watching I made sure I had it. It offered me comfort and security but does that mean that a blanket can stop harm from coming to me? No

    Religion is the same thing, its the illusion of security and hope from death. But there is no hope or security from death all we have is this life and we must make it better for each other, we must be good to each other bc it is the only life we have.

    I wont come this way again, and because of that I will make sure that my life is a life lived well.

    Atheism is reality. We dont make promises about things we dont know, we dont claim magically beings talked to us and told us about flowing rivers and 72 virgins bc that is not reality. We wont lie about things we dont know, but religion does. Men who are alive will tell you about the hereafter and the gullible believe them bc they have a hard life. Its no different than a drug dealer selling a temporary fix to a deeper problem that could have been solved by reason and logic.

    • Muslim and grateful says:

      Everybody has trials and difficulties mate that's this life and this world is not meant to be a paradise even the rich have their own difficulties. Allah test individual with difficulties that they can bear and looks at their patience and faith so don't just look at the poor who may be happier than many so called rich people. Oh and is good to know those going through with difficulties have somebody they can turn to and that there is hope for them. I don't know how atheist can live a life where they believe they just born and die and that there is no meaning of life. If I was an atheist (God forbid) I wouldn't want to live at.

      • NLander says:

        The poor arnt happy! Thats just something people like you tell themselves so you can feel better about not being poor! Wake up!

        So allah punishes the poor bc he thinks they can handle it? Are you serious?

        I can turn to my friends as well, I can look inwardly for answers by asking hard questions of myself and being honest.

        I dont need to pray in a foreign language 5 times a day and do light yoga repeating for some arab god to bless some arab people i never met and who have questionable pasts and actions.

        I look to myself! I look to history, I read books. I build confidence in myself to handle what life throws at him bc as an adult that is what you need to do. Praying never solved anything, it never cured disease otherwise people would stop going to hospitals and taking medicine.

        Knowing you only have this life makes it that much more beautiful and urgent that you should live well and not waste it hoping for something that someone else made up.

  16. NLander says:

    Again, I would be careful being a doctor and claiming you believe in flying horses and 72 virgins. I wouldnt be comfortable in the hands of such a doctor. If you can believe one irrational thing where does it end?

    • Raage says:

      Oh! I see Satan has internet access. Interesting. P.S. Stop pretending to be Somali. Only those of modest intelligence believe in atheism. The truly gifted (i.e. Sir Isaac Newton, Socrates, Einstein) were all devout believers in God. You seem to be stuck in neo-European thinking with regards to the compatibility of religion and reason. Obviously, you are someone who has a spiritual inferiority complex of sorts. You say you are an atheist, yet you seem to devout a tremendous amount of time, energy and emotion at attacking a religion. Islam is none of your concern if you are a true atheist. Interesting quote from Marcus Aurelius by the way. To quote him as someone speaking of just and unjust gods is ludacris. He was the first of the so-called "Good Emperors" who appointed his son as his heir, despite knowing that his son Commodus was a blood-thirsty psychopath. For you to quote such a man, Marcus Aurelius, who in 177 appointed Commodus as Augustus with him, speaks volumes. Marcus knew of what his son would do, but he made him Emperor anyway, and the result was the beginning of the end of Rome, not to mention unspeakable crimes and suffering inflicted on the people. The fact that you quoted such a disgusting nepotist whose hand-picked heir turned great Rome from "a kingdom of gold to one of iron and rust" (from contemporary Roman historian, Dio Cassius) tells us all the sort of man you are. One who says one thing, does another, cares only for himself, harms everyone else, lives a lie, and thinks he can get through life with his injustice without being judged himself. I will not reply as I am too busy being content with God and my religion. You need to learn to be content with your own beliefs as well as your own ethnicity (as we both know you are not Somali).

    • Nostalgic Soul says:

      Well too bad because like I said I'm already practicing.

  17. Nostalgic Soul says:

    NLander,

    That last comment of yours sounds like you're a bit upset. Have I disproved your theory that only Atheists have an education? Or that one must part ways with their faith to acquire knowledge? Thank God I live in America, where we print "In God We Trust" on our money. 80% of the doctors I work with and you see in Hospitals have some belief in a Higher Being. Atheists are a minority in my profession. So, if you have a problem with doctors who believe in God than I won't suggest going to a hospital to be treated at least not in the US. Of course the US also have the best Hospitals in the world, not to mention it's the most powerful country in the World.

    Here's something that I'm sure will really tick you off. I practice medicine in a Hijab and here's the shocker I am by no means the only one. You'll probably have a hard time trying to imagine this because to you the only truly liberated women is the one that liberates herself from her clothes.

    You're determined to believe that logic and religion are two mutually exclusive things, when they are not.
    The most famous scientist in the world, Albert Einstein, believed in God. Socrates, the father of western philosophy was killed for his belief in One God. Religion and science not being compatible is an outdated, Medieval European belief. When Europe was in the dark ages and destroying much of the philosophy and science from Ancient Rome and Greece, because it was blasphemy –Islamic scholars preserved it, because they valued the importance of the knowledge.

  18. Nostalgic Soul says:

    NLander,

    You want to know why people are poor? People are poor because of the actions of other people.
    God gives people free will, to do as they please. Take the example of Somalia. A war broke out in Somalia which was started by human beings using their free will and this resulted in people became poor. The test is how these individuals will cope with the misfortune that they are faced with. Some people will become angry and blame God, and as a result cease to believe in Him, these individuals failed the test. Other's will endure with patients and hold fast to their belief and be rewarded.

    In other parts of the world, people decided not to go to war with each other and worked hard to develop their country. They became wealth, and have a comfortable life. They're hard work paid off. We don't believe you can get anything with just prayer in Islam–You can't simply pray for money and get it, without working. God tells us to work hard. If things don't work out they way we wish, we believe it was God's will and He knows best. This life isn't meant to be heaven–life in this world is suppose to be hard and there is no such thing as the perfect life. Everyone has their trials. The rich are being tested also–to see if they become arrogant and selfish, to see if they stop believing in God now that they believe themselves to be self-sufficient.

  19. Nostalgic Soul says:

    NLander,

    What? Was my reply so amazing that you couldn't think of another come back?

  20. Raage says:

    N Lander,

    Oh! I see Satan has internet access. Only those of modest intelligence believe in atheism. The truly gifted (i.e. Sir Isaac Newton, Socrates, Einstein) were all devout believers in God. You seem to be stuck in neo-European thinking with regards to the compatibility of religion and reason. Obviously, you are someone who has a spiritual inferiority complex of sorts. You say you are an atheist, yet you seem to devout a tremendous amount of time, energy and emotion at attacking a religion. Islam is none of your concern if you are a true atheist. Interesting quote from Marcus Aurelius by the way. To quote him as someone speaking of just and unjust gods is ludacris. He was the first of the so-called "Good Emperors" who appointed his son as his heir, despite knowing that his son Commodus was a blood-thirsty psychopath. For you to quote such a man, Marcus Aurelius, who in 177 appointed Commodus as Augustus with him, speaks volumes. Marcus knew of what his son would do, but he made him Emperor anyway, and the result was the beginning of the end of Rome, not to mention unspeakable crimes and suffering inflicted on the people. The fact that you quoted such a disgusting nepotist whose hand-picked heir turned great Rome from "a kingdom of gold to one of iron and rust" (from contemporary Roman historian, Dio Cassius) tells us all the sort of man you are: one who says one thing, does another, cares only for himself, harms everyone else, lives a lie, and thinks he can get through life with his injustice without being judged himself. Furthermore, while you seem to worship Marcus Aurelius, if you were truly a student of history, you would know that attacks on Christians were heavily intensified during his reign. The poor Christians were slaughtered by Marcus Aurelius because of their belief in God. I think you like him so much because you too would like to physically harm those who believe in God. Your barrage of offensive comments highlights your own ignorance of the world. Your poor choice of historical figure to advance your cause highlighted your hypocrisy and the depths of your draconian opinions. I will not reply as I am too busy being content with God and my religion. You need to learn to be content with your own beliefs as well as your own ethnicity (as we both know you are not Somali).

  21. NLander says:

    Einstein didnt believe in Gods read his stuff again! Actually let me put them up here for you so you can shu t up about it

    Socrates was a polytheist but that doesnt really matter bc he was more of a philosopher than an actual scientist

    Here is a link to one of his letters where he states that he doesnt believe in God that sold for a decent price at auction.
    http://io9.com/5954119/einsteins-i-dont-believe-i

    As for Isaac Newton he also believed in Alchemy and astrology so like the Doctor in this comments section that still believes in flying horses and that some arab in a cave had a personal conversation with Gabriel. Its troubling but it shows that critically thinking is something that even a genius might lack. hence why there are classes for it.

    I am saying that the overwhelming majority of scientists today and even in the past have been atheists or deists at the very least. One or two hardly makes your case any better.

    I only attack religion when I see some article that is crazy posted. In every other article you see I comment on the relevant issue.

    Whether or not he(marcus) actually meant for Commodus to take over can be disputed but again what does that have to do with how true his comment is or the general topic at hand? What he said was right no matter what he did or did not do.

    What do you say to Mohammed and the Sahaba killing the Banu Qureysa. If they just killed the older men who were fighting that would be one thing but they killed all youngmen and men who had grown pub ic hair boys as young as 10 were killed and their women distributed as sexual slaves. If you are worried about Aurelius how do you deal with Mohammeds bloodthirsty past? Especially when you are claiming he is the perfect example for man, while I dont argue that Marcus was but simply used one of his quotes that had truth to it.?

    I never said I worship marcus I used one quote and you took that because you have absolutely nothing else! In fact you're showing intelligent people just how useless your argument is.

    Actually, it is you that isnt knowledgeable about history or rather selective. I never said I idolize marcus, I simply used one quote. You on the other hand worship mohammed as the best man as an example for all men in all generations. So when he does something bad you have to justify it or act as if it doesnt happen.

    I on the other hand do not worship marcus and can clearly see where he might of gone wrong and I am not worried or bothered about others pointing out flaws. Because it doesnt affect me or any individual quotes that might actually have truth in them.

    Try Harder

  22. Nostalgic Soul says:

    NLander,

    You said to name 1 right Muslim women have that western women don't. In Islam, any money a woman makes or inherits is hers–no one else can have a claim to it—and even if she is wealthier than her husband he is still excepted to provide her with food, shelter and clothes. If she is unmarried the responsibility falls on her father and brother to financially support her—regardless of her income.

    Like you so many Muslims (and in particular Muslim women), do not know their rights under Islam. With regards to divorce –In Islam, we view marriage as a contract between a man and women. In her marriage contract a woman can specify situations in which she and her husband will be automatically divorced, the terms of the divorce–like who gets the children. And even her divorce settlement—all this is done without having to battle it out with her husband in court like in the west. It's the Islamic prenuptial agreement.

  23. Raage says:

    lol at NLander,

    The earlier post calling you out for your marcus aurelius quotes made you so angry lol! Everything you wrote in rebuttal is a complete farce!! Saying Socrates was a polytheist is simply false. He died for his religious beliefs in rejecting the Greek parthenon and forwarding his belief in One God; so much so that his final moments were immortalized when recreated by neoclassical painter David. Please refer to Platos' Apology essay for further details. If you do not know this, I do not know what to tell you.

    As for the brilliant Albert Einstein, he was a devout Jew, famously declaring that "God did not play dice with the universe". It is quite ironic that you believe in some strange, obscure and (invariably fabricated) letter you found on a sketchy website on the internet as truth, and yet you ridicule two billion people on Earth for following the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH); and over 4 billion if you include Muslims,Christians, and Jews who all follow the Prophet Moses (PBUH) for example. As someone who claims to follow reason instead of blind faith (incompatible concepts to the restricted intellect), its funny that you believe that letter to be true without any empiric evidence to support its veracity.

    You need to take a deep breath and relax. We are trying to have a civilized discussion – yet you seem to be so very angry and upset. Maybe you should pray to Marcus Aurelius to help you strengthen your belief in atheism lol!

    Your having to resort to personal insults is highly entertaining. I thank Almighty Allah for providing me with someone to entertain me so! Your historically inaccurate characterization of history with regards to Islam, Rome, and various figures, philosophical, scientific and otherwise, reminds me of old episodes of Monty Python! Keep on making things up!

    Sincerely,

    Your Muslim Friend,

    Raage

  24. Jama says:

    Is NLander even Somali?

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